If that was supposed to be an evil laugh, it should be Muh-ha-ha-ha! It's the 'Muh' that really makes the evil stand out.
I updated the pit treasure with elements of divination. This is what I would use in the future. I can teach you the meanings,… it will only cost you YOUR SOUL!!!! :) HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!
Joe, Rich was suggesting exactly what you are. Instead of the Indentify spell revealing the mechanical plusses to the players, it will give clues to the characters.
It would seem we're going to a five step process to determine what each magic item does. First we'll visually examine the item, which anyone can do. The materials and design the maker used should give us clues as to the items function. The second step would be a skill check, probably either Spellcraft or Knowledge - Arcana, although Decipher Script could identify some runes, and, rarely, a skill check related to the item's use could yield something. Third is Detect Magic, which will tell us something about the magic on the item. The fourth step would be Indentify, which should yield some fairly specific information, but not everything. To finish the puzzle, we would have to experiment with the item, and get a little lucky.
I’m not too sure what you’re going for there. It sounds like you’re creating a lot of extra work for the DMs, where I have to come prepared with a list of materials/properties for each item.
I can think of two gripes I have with the identification process:
1) I’d prefer that characters had to actually use the item to find out what it does. If you find a sword, you should use it a couple times to find out what it does and the DM should tell you want the power are after use. Items should “want” to be used and reveal their powers as appropriate. If you have a wand of fire in your backpack (and you don’t know that) and a ice elemental is attacking you, the wand should start to vibrate (for example).
2) I’d like certain powers of magic items to not be identifiable at all right away, I’d like that to be part of the adventure/story to be revealed at a later date after certain events happen. Or if the PCs get “lucky” and trigger it before it’s supposed to, that’s great too.
Identify should probably be a research project, not a spell. Study should reveal a hint about what the item does (if it’s something you can’t actually use and find out that way.). There should be some hint on the Wand of Fire that it does something with fire (fire theme… charcoal laying around…). Items that were used against the PCs should be easier to identify (maybe they heard part of the command word). Research of the item may reveal that the person who made it liked Divination spells, therefore the item probably does X. That kind of thing. Keeping opponents alive will be more essential as well, as they’ll be able to tell you what the magic items do.
I also know I didn’t answer your question, but I’m really not that interested in re-inventing the spell. But really whatever you guys decide is fine with me. I guess for me, I’d almost get rid of the spell altogether.
Detect Magic is good as is. Identify should follow along it's path of logic.
The key is to make identifying magic items fun.
I see magic items having two aspects, obvious and unobvious properties.
Obvious properties are; Item & placement area (gloves - hands, boots - feet, hat - head, etc.), materials (wood, gold, leather, etc.), markings (writing, symbols, runes).
These properties can give clues to identifying an item. Item placement leans towards the kind of spell as described in creating items. Materials would include the components or focuses for the spells. Markings can indicate charges, triggers, schools or domains, wizards and guilds and individual creators.
Unobvious properties are; spell school or domain, charges, triggers, spells, creator and power level.
Identify is divination and that is limited to a smaller vocabulary. Any of the above properties can be identified individually, but the response is with a limited clue to the details of the item.
The Elder Futhark Runes and the High Archana Tarot are associated with divination. These meanings can be extracted and used for identification purposes.
I wouldn't give a discount to the cost for a good roll. No matter how good you are, building something takes a minimum amount of materials. The better your skill, and the better your roll, the quicker you work, completely the project in less time. Worse rolls would take longer, and possibly cost more, because you're work is inefficient and wastes materials.
To draw a real world analogy, if you're doing some plumbing yourself instead of hiring a plumber, the pipe and fittings still cost the same. However, if you screw up bad enough, the whole project can take much longer and cost more than had you just hired a good professional.
I think the spirit of the spell is so the Gnome is silent in his actions. It would silence the target and their actions, but not the actions or talking of anyone who saved vs the spell. All mundane and no magical things, but not beings who get saves, will be silenced. Possessed items of beings who made their save are not effected. It looks like the spell can move, so someone may only hear silence come and go as the Gnome moves.
Revised Thoughts on Crafting
All crafting skills allow the player to make something out of materials available.
The appropriate tools and workbench are built into the cost to make the item.
Without getting into the details of what each tool costs it is added together for the overhead required to make the item.
So where is the value in having the skill?
Currently the item costs half of the recommended retail price is.
To endeavor to roleplay this aspect in more depth should allow for the players skill to be applied to a DC for making the item.
Based on the success of the roll, a better discount of time or money can be applied to the time it takes to make the item, or to the cost of the item.
This could also increase the retail price of the item.
A goblin shortsword and an elven shortsword do the same thing and cost the same amount, but the quality of the metal and the craftsmanship tend to differ.
Crafting magic items is a Feat that can also have a complimentary craft. Armor-smith and creating magical armor can work together. The smith part can apply to the base item cost and the feat applies to the magic.
The craft of alchemy is mostly thought of as potions. A potion is a scroll in a jar. Potions are restricted to zero to third level spells. The Alchemist class has feats that can extend the spell levels up to ninth level.
The alchemy skill should apply to magic item creation. The DC the retail price minus the base, squared plus ten. A successful net result is applied to a percentage of time or cost.
Eg. A magic item that has a full magic cost of 1000 gp would have a DC of 11. A total roll of 21 would be a 10% reduction in base magic cost or time to make the item. Actual cost would be half 1000 minus 10% more. 450 gp instead of 500gp. If the total magic cost just exceeds the daily cost per day formula, it could reduce it by one day. An 1100 gp item could be reduced time wise to a 1000 gp item and therefore take one day instead of two.
An armor smith could fetch the percentage more in retail price.
I will be there, via the interweb.
so Mouse would be appropriate… though not necessarily cool sounding :) but I'd go with it.
I would hope it wouldn't work that Glimkin could cast the spell on himself and have it only effect him (he'd be deaf) and everyone else be able to hear him.
I'd actually prefer the nick name came from a fellow party member.
Yes we need to give each other nicknames.
Glimkin "Mouse" Ranor (Joe) "you are as quiet as a mouse!"
Aramith Glade (Curt) Elves don't like nick names.
Halfling Druid (Le)
Krunk, Half Ogre Paladin (Andy) "Big K"
That's the best name you could come up with? A Whisper Gnome nicknamed 'Whisper.' Do we have to hold a 'Name Joe's Character' contest to help you out?
I think the vast majority of Alchemy uses will be mundane or zero level spell effects.
If the spell is an AoE spell then all in the area make a save if one is required.
If the spell is a single target but effects things in a 20 ft rad, then it would be specific to the sounds the target is making.
If silence is centered on a person and a second person is within 20ft of the first, putting him in the spell radius, does the second person get a saving throw verses the silence spell? The Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone pg 96) get's that ability once per day as a spell-like ability, centered on themselves.
I don't have a strong opinion. Though I like what I mentioned that I do my weekend game that the experience be subtracted from the group pool. I think found items should reduce the material cost for whatever you are making if appropriate… unicorn horn dust for transportation items, elves blood for longevity, dragon blood for various resistances, etc. The material should be worth some base value modified by the ability to harvest it (probably survival skill).
I probably wouldn't play in the campaign if characters were evil. But up to you guys. (Sorry, don't really check this forum)
Any Feat that allows the player to gain more treasure or gold is subject to the modifications the Feat gives.
If a feat allows a player to make an item instead of buying an item, then that is the advantage of the feat.
A fighting feat allows for easier killing of monsters and therefore access to more XP.